Bailout? Recession? What To Do?
Thursday, September 25th, 2008 at
7:45 pm
Panic!! That’s what people seem to be doing at the moment. It’s the typical “We’ve got a problem, let’s throw money at it” solution: 700 Billion Dollars to be precise!! Below are video’s from the 2 main presidential candidates & one from a former presentational candidate. Who do you think makes the most sense? Leave your comments below:
Ron Paul
Barack Obama
John McCain
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Hey Mark,
I have been with Ron Paul since the 1960’s. He walks the walk….. The press knew that the way to get rid of Ron Paul as a Presidential possible, this year, was to “silence him,” and they did.He got more votes in some states than Rudy Guliana, but was never included in any of the debates, offered to all the other candidates!
Who was it that said,”I don’t care what you say about me, just be sure to spell my name right.” Also, “Any publicity is better than no publicity at all.”
Obama is Muslum,has 147 days experience,has openly refused to pledge allegience to our flag,refused at first, to wear an American Flag lapel pin. He got his wife’s employer a million dollar grant, and the very next year, she got a raise in her pay, from $102,000.00 up to
$304,000.00. Not bad for a low level manager.Learn more, go to: theobamafile.com or exposeobama.com .First is best. Thanks!
Hi Mark,
Worried, frightened, scared sh##less, how ever you want to word this. This is the same Executive and Legislative group that has rushed us into Iraq on what they now admit was poor intelligence (of course the Senate Intelligence Committee knew that in the Fall of 2002 – before it started); now they’re rushing into another form of a bail out? What is standing sitting at the root of this current situation; at least in part; the sub-prime issue which if they had addressed that issue and bailed out Main Street USA, perhaps we might have avoided this mess.
Lord help us all!
Responding to Harry Martin’s uneducated post.
Please do check out Snopes.com and they confirm the truth. Obama is not muslim nor did he choose to be a black man, His parents named him and no when he was born he didn’t get a chance to tell his parents what name he would like them to name him. Did you get your information from some spam email?
Here is the problem most have and correct me if I am wrong:
If you grow up in Hawaii, are raised by your grandparents, you’re considered to be too “exotic, different”, but if you grow up in Alaska eating moose burgers you’re “a quintessential American story”?
If you happen to graduate from Harvard Law School and at the top of your class and you are “unstable”, but if you attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you’re “well grounded”?
If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you “don’t have any real leadership experience”?
If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you’re qualified to become the country’s second highest ranking executive?
If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re “not a real Christian”?
If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, left your disfigured wife and married heiress Cindy the next month, you’re a true Christian?
If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are “eroding the fiber of society”?
If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you’re “very responsible”?
If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your “family’s values don’t represent America’s”?
If your husband is nicknamed ‘First Dude’, with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn’t register to vote until age 25 and was once a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is “extremely admirable”?
Please let me know what I am missing?
I guess McCain was correct when he said that he doesn’t understand economics. He sounds like he’s speaking to kindergarteners from material someone else wrote. Remember, his first response to this was to cancel the debate on Friday so his Republican cronies could pull a fast one on the taxpayers. Ron Raul knows what he is talking about; however, it is the policy of his party to favor big business/finance rather than those who shoulder the lion’s share of our country’s tax burden. Printing money and borrowing overseas will only add to our 9.6 TRILLION dollar deficit. There is no bottomless treasure chest from which bailout money may be extracted. Our grandchildren and great grandchildren will be paying for today’s greed and mismanagement. Obama, on the other hand, has the right idea as far as taxpayers are concerned, but I’m not sure all he asks is viable given the weight on the dollar. But, the guy stepped up. McCain must have been busy reading My Pet Goat.
Mrk,
thank you for putting these three videos up…a more stark differentiation between economic views could not have been made clearer.
We have the libertarian/constitutionalist Ron Paul explaining in detail why the dangers of the bail-out could be greater than the risks faced today.
In contrast the Marxist Obama talks about protecting the people by giving the government more power and nationalising the financial system of this country. Does anyone really bekieve the taxpayer will share in any upside coming from a bail-out? And does anyone really believe that there will be an upside when government olicy continues to overinflate the dollar’s value while controlling interest rates at less than market rates? It is simple economics…and even without understanding this, how can anyone think that big government will not expand to absorb any upside from the bailout?
Thirdly we have the quasi-socialist McCain making more sense than the Marxist but still missing the point….neither of the two presidential candidates reference the true problem.
Greed is not the problem.
Fat cats on Wall street is not the problem.
The problem is that when we discarded the gold standard our financial system became based on what people think our currency should be worth…not on what on our productivity is. This works for a short while, but eventually becomes a nonsense value that ensures the economy stands on the precipice of disaster. Well …that precipice is not only bigger today than it was a decade ago, but the ground is falling away from under us.
And the solution is easy (although the execution will result in some significant short term pain for everybody).
The solution? Let the free markets do their job. Let poor businesses fail. Let business people do their thing and get the government out of our lives. Return to the gold standard for currency value. Define wealth in terms of productivity rather than dollars that have no value. Remove all forms of government hand-outs and prevent further growth of the welfare and entitlement society that has destroyed this great country.
Sorry…I am standing on a sopa box now….but the problems will not be solved until the people understand the free ride is over and stand up and say…we will work for what we want…no more handouts!
Enough said. If the poeple truly want this country to return to greatness, they must be prepared to work for it.
Randy
shoppingkharma, I was also going to respond to Harry Martin’s uneducated post, but now I don’t have to because you did so beautifully! Thank you.
But I will say this. There’s a lot of garbage going around in emails, citing all sorts of incomplete, out of context snippets about Obama. I guess what sickens me more than these last eight years is how so many people don’t bother to do a little bit of research to uncover the real truth, and yet, they’re allowed to vote. Now that’s scary!
Hey Shoppingkharma.
I will tell you what you missed.
Obama is a Marxist.
That is enough to disqualify him as a serious contender as President. Unless of course, you want to live in a Marxist State…and maybe you do?
Or maybe you just don’t understand what that means?
It never ceases to amaze me how otherwise intelligent people seem to ignore what is right in front of their faces. Must be the messiah syndrome!
Randy
The economic problems facing this country are far too complex for the average citizen to understand. That’s just a sad fact. That being the case, we need political leaders capable of being practical, inteligent and communicative.
Bush has just about destoyed this country. Ron Paul is an idealogue, wedded to the “gold standard”, combined with projecting the image of a rough and tough individualist. It’s crap. McCain is a desparate, vengeful, nasty guy who could not care less about “the American people”, my friends. Obama is bright, even tempered, realistic, patriotic and sane. Obama is the last chance we may have to keep this country from further decline and more steps toward fascism (or corporatism if that makes you feel better…either term means the same thing- a government controlled by big business.
Wow, I’m suprised that anyone still believes all that crap about Obama. I don’t want him to be president, but only because I disagree with his politics-not because I believe everything I read on the interwebs. To the question at hand, Ron Paul really understands what is going on economically. When this bailout happens, things are only going to get worse.
Don’t oversell it Randy, we would not, could not, and will not “live in a Marxist state”.
We live in a Republic, which is “a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them” and our system of government is a democracy with three branches which uses checks and balances so that no one branch has too much power (except for our current President, of course).
Our financial system is socio-capitalism, and if it were purely capitalistic, sure, you wouldn’t have welfare, but you also would not have unemployment benefits, worker’s comp, social security, medicare, medicaid… shall I go on? (BTW, medicaid is what pays for your sub-standard nursing home when your pension is taken away from you because of concessions given over the years AFTER you retire!)
Or are you so young as to think you’ll never need social security or medicare? Maybe you won’t. I’m not being sarcastic, it’s just that things change, and yes, greed does enter into it. When I was starting out, there were no IRAs, 401ks, and pension plans weren’t a “given” either. Oh yeah, and you could get by without health insurance and prescription plans because health care was affordable. Health insurance was called “hospitalization” insurance because that was all you needed to cover.
You are dead on about the gold standard though, as Ron Paul alluded to it when he said the dollar is not backed up. No one is surprised that came back to bite us.
Kevin,
I couldn’t agree more with you.
We, the people, should not care about whether a president is black, white, green or purple with pink polka dots.
We should not care if he can give a well rehearsed speech from a teleprompter. We should not care about gender, or background (although past decisions gives us a metric to determine character).
What we should care about is the policies…do they make sense, does the contender understand the realities of life, does he have the intestinal fortitude to make the right decisions even if it is against his best interests or perhaps even alienates voters.
It is time for this country to really look hard at itself…and elect someone who doesn’t pander to the masses or necessarily follow the popularist notion that everyone has the rights to an easy life (this is not a bithright as some people suggest).
Unfortunately,the two remaining presidential contenders differ only by the degree of their economic tendencies. In truth, the only difference between them is how quickly this country will decline under their leadership.
Of course, Congress has a lot to do with the ultimate direction…and the current Congress has been usurped by liberals who are no more than power hungry degenerates who don’t care about the people but care strongly about maintaining their power base. The republicans in congress have moved further to the left with each passing year, and, in order to maintain votes have followed, and in some cases led, the people of this country into a state where the people believe they should have everything they want regardless of whether they earn it or not.
Where is John Galt? I think I will go live with him because Atlas is about to shrug!
Randy
Hi Linda,
thanks for the reasoned and pleasant response. A real highlight of my day…:)
I do not believe it is the governments responsibility to provide retirement benefits, or health care, or unemployment benefits.
Those are my responsibilities and mine alone.
Where does entitlement stop? Maybe the government should provide car insurance for me? Or maybe property insurance in case something happens and my house is destroyed? Or someone too lazy to work steals my stuff …should the government bail me out?
ok..so..get off that soapbox, Randy….lol
I know you understand what I am saying.
As for the system of electing government in this country (and most democratic countries), it too is broken.
When approximately 40% of the voters are committed to one party and 40% committed to the other, and nothing is going to change that…then the fate of this country is held in the hands of just 20% of the voters. These “independant” are also the easiest to “buy off” with promises of government handouts etc. Not all independants can be bought, but enough can that the power base is preserved by whichever party offers the most bounty.
Call this cynical…but I am old enough and widely travelled enough to see what it is…and honest enough to know that it is a real problem.
The only way to solve this is for the people to really take control, stop being automatons and actually think about their votes.
JFK was wrong when he said “Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.”
What he should have said is “Ask what you can do for yourself, and then your country will be able to move forward”.
Cheers
Randy
I gotta say I still find it shocking that it even matters what religion a candidate is and that people still seem to believe Obama is a muslim even after the whole REVEREND Wright episode but the bottom line is this Obama & McCain will provide more of the same:
Increased Spending
Same Foreign Policy
And No REAL Change to the monetary system.
I really do wish there was someone like Ron Paul here in Europe. Someone who actually understands economics & knows that simply throwing money at a problem wont fix it.
That’s my two cents.
Mark
I believe Ron Paul has the best answer to the situtation. Considering how many times do we need to be lied to by the President of the US before we realize most of what he has done has been for his own personal gain. Not for the American people. Look at the economy now compared to where we where in 1999 even 2000 wasn’t bad. But for almost 9 years (will be 9 on 12/31/08) that Bush has been president of USA our country has gone down farther than any other president has ever been able to in the past. Besides there is no way I will vote for a muslim (Obama) who is against America & what it stands for no matter lies he tries to use to get people to believe he is honestly for Americans. What a joke that is. To many people just don’t want to accept the fact America is already in a depression & we’re steadly going down hill.
As a Brit watching with growing horror and despair as USA goes down the pan dragging the rest of us with it I am appalled at this huge amount of money that is to be being paid by the US tax payers. So much is not being put out on your main stream media (MSM).
http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2008/09/a-financial-controlled-demolition-just-like-911/
This has been a borrowed economy for the last 30 years. The pyramid form that our financial sector as based on has provided huge revenues for the government.Of course our government wants more of the same. This faked economy has been at the expense of children first and people that actually work in a way that creates real genuine wealth ie a natural resource combined with a human resource. It’s very sad to see how ignorant greed is, and how our population as a whole has been duped into thinking that there was sense in borrowing an economy. The ego has had it’s way in America and the results are predictable when the ego is involved. The ego is the fool in all of us.
Of course the bailout is as wrong as the borrowed economy. The bailout is spending borrowed money to prop up the root of our economic problem.
Families haven’t had time for each other for decades now and children have been left to fend for themselves. This has been a disgusting three decades in the history of our country and I’m glad the laws of economics are finally prevailing over the ignorance of greed.
This is a win-win situation as no matter what direction the policy makers go in this bailout dilemma, the end result is the end of the shell game. In other words, checkmate…….now let’s get back to taking care of our children for a change.
As is always the case there is nothing to fear but fear itself, so here’s to the healing of our world and the good that will follow this major lesson for us all.
Let them go down!!! I pay my bills and credit cards and I get nothing except more taxes and regulations..
P.S. for you Obamaniacs, Examine what Illinos and Chicago are like.. More people shot in Chicago than in Iraq. Highest taxes in the United States. Bulldozing 500 homes in the name of progress.. Illinois’ Democratic governor in likely to be indicted. (he was a reformer).Hundreds of politicians and city workers sent to prison. Obama flourished in this system and nary a peep about ethics and or reform.. He was a coat holder.
Illinois has $40 billion in debt, massive tax increases and no new jobs created in four years.
Obama was elected to help Illinois and has spent two years preaching he is the answer. Spare us and the USA
Mark, who you see as the “voice of reason” would seem to be dependent on your worldview. At this point in history, there really is no such thing as ‘free market capitalism.’ A free market can only exist when the participants thereto actually have an equal stake. Perhaps in the days of actual marketplaces, where the guy selling the oranges was in direct competition with the other four guys selling the oranges, the market could actually set the price. But when corporations dominate the marketplace, as they now do, it can hardly be considered a free market. In fact, one of our greatest US presidents, Abraham Lincoln, feared this corporate takeover as a greater threat to our nation than the Civil War. That is to say, at this point in our nation’s history, the ideal of laissez faire capitalism has degenerated into exactly what our founding fathers so feared, and what they believed had been the downfall of Europe and the need to establish a New World: the pooling of the wealth in the hands of the few. At this point, the distribution of global wealth is at about 95% in the hands of 5% of the population. In the USA, according to recent studies, 1% of the population controls 35% of the wealth. And the bottom half of the economic scale controls about 2.5% of the wealth. If we would like Utopia, this ain’t it! So it all depends: do we want a more equitable distribution of the wealth, or are we okay with what amounts to the old Lord of the Manor/serf breakdown of asset distribution? We are about to define ourselves in this upcoming presidential election. So. Who is the “voice of reason”? Well, Mark: what world do you want?
“IN THE NAME OF GREED”
People are so hung up on money “and POWER” they don’t care about anything. They use the power to get what they want (control).
Some Politicians go unchecked since they have the “POWER” and buddy system of other politicians “hand shakers”. I will do this for you if you let me do this or that!
They are using the tax payer trust in them to do the job they should be doing. Some selfishly vote themselves a raise (just because they can and who’s going to confront them)? Even if it means the money they got could have been used to keep the system going. Thing of it is very, very few if anyone in Government are there to help America!
We “America” are being taxed to death. America was build for the people to be free from taxes. But I know it takes money to run the Government! But with the educated people we have in America you mean to tell me we can’t come up with a better system.
I do believe that if “GREED” was left out and set it up the system for America (for the people). The Politicians don’t have to worry about there retirement plan they’re going to use any of that money for anything else. If they were in the same boat we’re in I assure you they would come up with something. So since the tax payers are funding it we the tax payers should benefit too! In other words they can star with making things fair! That I believe that that’s what every American expects from people we put in office with our trust in them.
The way (whom ever set-up) the tax system is set up is when business has a lost tax payers loose. Lets say when a person starts to default in paying monthly credit card(s), the Credit card company penalizes the card holder as much as possible putting card hold in more of a debt knowing he cant or want pay.(Not to say that a person don’t want to pay there debt they do).They’re just backed into a corner.) This give the Credit card company of a larger debt to charge off for a lost write off. They create this virtual lost. To off set there Actual gains where there’re legally raping card holder and tax papers with the interest rate that they were allowed to charge, by politicians hand shakers.
Also, another set-up is Mortgages two fold bubble. The false since of tax right offs. Oh you get to right off the interest paid out. And the appreciation of your home. What most people do is use there home to get money out for retirement and or pay bills off etc. Next thing you know you lose it.
Lets set it up to give the people an incentive to pay there homes off and keep it in the family. To rent, ( use the money for there retirement etc) or let there kids live in it.
Now the incentive for the GOVERNMENT to do this is (This is what I would do if I was President and had to pay for People’s 1.Sickness expenses (drugs, hospital etc)..
2. Living quarters, 3. Food (food stamps) 4. ETC. For everyone of these items
The more you help the people to take care of these items the less GOV haste to pay out of the taxes.
Now for Insurance to cover the Sickness expenses, drugs hospital etc. The GOV and whom else, is afraid that you are going to benefit from insurance that you are limited to 80% 20% rule. One being that gee heaven for bid insurance companies have to pay 100% to 120% of a person’s illness and or sickness. When a person get sick and or has an illness cost him and or her 120% parking and all the unforeseen related to getting well. So why not spread the bearded between 2,3,4,5… insurance companies. Also, to give the person and or families an incentive to carry insurance is to give them a 110% right off. That means if I pay $100 for my insurance I get a right off of $110 .
Now for taxes it’s a waste of time put into collecting taxes. We could cut taxes by not having to pay IRS people to do what it is that they do (you know all that fear they put into u)s. And automate the collections by when you spend the money some how you pay taxes. More to come let me know what you think if this. Next is about stopping at red lights. And the theft of inventions. Lord God is our foundations.
I come from a different country and probably social surrounding-Serbia /exYugoslavia/but doesn’t matter when people life, happiness and progress is about.I am honestly worried with everything is going on all over the world.I am frightened of possibility a great Dragon swallow *little* lives of *common*people.Too much power and wealth in hands of a group of people leave millions of population on mercy and disfavor of individuals.I am sorry for saying it looks like we have no courage to achieve what want and what deserve-happy life.I read here,you ask yourself is Obama a Muslim,even set in motion questions of Socialism,but my advice is:ask yourself what policy carried out your country in the last 20 years,why America was engaged in Wars/Kosovo and Iraq/it was big mistake,who had benefit from these wars,probably not you who are here now,because you are a nice ,good person,having your dreams and hopes,love people all around the world and believe in the better feature.I am like you.
I believe is very important what course America take now,destiny of my country and whole world depends on that.
I wish you could braver and understand you can make a difference,don’t allow others decide instead .I am afraid,if America goes on /as in the past/it would be wrong for all of us.
ps;right decision is one which doesn’t hit you
For the voices of sanity, you might like to read the article at http://www.opednews.com/articles/IT-S-THE-DERIVATIVES-STUP-by-Ellen-Brown-080918-354.html
Ellen Brown is the author of the comprehensive 500+ Page study of the “Web of Debt”, which provides the historical background of the creation of the FED. Ron Paul bases his decisions on this history,(not on Ellen’s book!) as well as the Austrian von Mises economics. You can find a copy of the book at
http://www.webofdebt.com (I am not connected with this at all).
It is fascinating that we have a repetition of post 9/11. A “grave crisis”, “immediate action” required, “total carte blanche power” to the Treasury Secretary. No time for deep discussion of problem and/or solutions. Hopefully, there are still some in Congress who are holding up proceedings by asking pertinent questions. Professor Meltzer of Mellon U – interviewed on PBS – has also completely rejected the need to bail-out these scoundrels, pointing out that Mitsubishi Corp – and now Warren Buffett – have purchased Billions of dollars of stock in Goldmach Sachs – so why should the “taxpayer” once again foot the bill?
Have you seen Aaron Russo’s FED exposure Video on YouTube; or any of the publications/newsletters of Restore the Republic which is an organization spawned by Russo’s untimely death?
Let’s hope this time Congress does not sleep on the job!
There is no accountability not on wall street, not with the Federal Reserve, not in Washington. Ron Paul makes sense. The other 2 presidential workerbees are nothing but smoke and mirrors. I just listened to Rep Marci Kaptur state her proposal for a bailout of a different nature…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27yitK32dsWhile on the surface,she tells it like it is, at this point the corruption in America has gone too far and I don’t think any amount of “damage control” whether for the welfare of America’s working class, or Paulson’s welfare for the rich, will spare any of us from the turbulence ahead. Just like the Titanic, America is going under, hook, line and sinker.
Are they using taxes they already (or to be) collected? And what was this (already collected) money collected for? Will this taxed money have to be replaced? To actually use it for what it was collected for! This is typical of politicians to rob “Tax Payer” to pay “Politicians mistakes.
So instead of borrowing money from other countries. With out paper money that’s not backed by gold. The only thing that we have of value is our land (US soil) and that’s worth more that gold.
Well what I am getting at is: Since politicians don’t mind paying all this interest we owe to other countries. Why not set it up so that American ONLY can invest in our DEBT. Pay the interest back to the people that build this country. That way if the government defaults on the loan at least America will still be OWNED by the Americans. The more money that the American people have the more we can help the foreign countries when they help like we have been doing. Why is it that politician’s are so afraid that the American people may prosper!
Hi from a Kiwi (New Zealander)
Ron Paul is the only one that has spoken with any degree of truth. The others are all like sheep being herded by dogs. New Zealand has gone through the type of pain that Ron Paul says will last approx a year and has come out stronger for it.
I urge the American people to say NO to the bail-out and stand firm. I also urge the investors of all companies to question the need to pay top executives exorbitant salaries topped up with through the roof bonuses.
Perhaps your Congress and Senate should be examining the monetary system instead of propping it up at your expense.
Tell your representatives to vote NO.
I may be off on this but my view is that if I went to the gov’t as an American Citizen and said I was in debt, which thanks to the rich and famous most of us are, do you think they would bail me out????? I’m thinking not. So all’s I can say is because of their debt gas has gone down and now I have some extra money in my pocket to do other things with! Why should the rich get bailed out while the rest of us are left to suffer!!
Informative post. I really enjoyed it. Thanks again, Gideon
Hey, is there a section just for latest news
amazing stuff thanx
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